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wafb
03-13-2012, 03:16 AM
Saw this on another board.

Five Loading Protocols That Suck
Five Loading Protocols That Suck
by Eric Cressey, MA, CSCS ? 1/05/2011
There are loads of different ways to get stronger. Similarly, there are all sorts of different classifications of strength, whether you're a powerlifter, strongman, Olympic lifter, manual laborer, or just some random dude who wears his hat like Sylvester Stallone in "Over the Top" and constantly seeks out arm wrestling matches in airports, bingo halls, or massage parlors.
While there are general principles like progressive overload that govern how everyone gets stronger regardless of the chosen loading protocol, certain schemes are simply more effective than others when it comes to adding weight to the bar.
Below, I put five such schemes under the microscope and highlight where they are wisely applied ? or completely inappropriate.

Defendant #1: Linear Periodization

In kicking this point off, I should state emphatically that any form of periodization works better than no form of periodization. As with most things in life, throwing a bunch of shit on the wall to see what works is rarely an optimal way to get things done.
Traditional linear periodization includes multiple phases in succession: muscular endurance, hypertrophy, strength, and power (although in the non-athletic realm, the power phase is usually skipped). The idea, in theory, was good for peaking athletes for a big event at the end of the power phase. There were a few problems, though:
? One simply can't maintain proficiency in the qualities developed as he/she moves to subsequent phases. For instance, the strength developed in the first go-round would be largely lost by the time the athlete reached the hypertrophy portion of the second. Or, an athlete struggles to maintain muscle mass (hypertrophy) through the power phase.
? Not all athletes have to peak for a specific event; more commonly, athletes have long, grueling competitive seasons. So, which phase do you use during the season?
? Just imagine how your joints would feel if you ONLY trained for strength during an entire training session for an entire phase of your training. Think you might be a little banged up? Yep.
Some people have tried to throw out the argument that linear periodization is a good fit for beginners because the endurance phase gives them a chance to get in plenty of practice reps and build up connective tissue strength, but I couldn't disagree more. Why?
What does a beginner look like on a set of 12-15 reps of squats or deadlifts? Maybe the first 4-5 look good, and then he/she is just engraining faulty movement patterns for the latter two thirds of the set. Crazy fatigue is not what you want when you're trying to teach technique and get someone started on the right foot.
Summing up, linear periodization might be better than nothing, but that still doesn't make it an effective approach for beginners or more experienced lifters looking to get bigger, stronger, or both. Stick to nonlinear modalities and you'll be much better off; trust me.

Defendant #2: 5x5

The 5x5 approach is one that's gained a lot of popularity in a "resurgence" since it was originally introduced quite some time ago. Fact is, it's so popular that some folks use it exclusively...all the time...for their entire lives. Sadly, I'm not joking.
First, let's talk about the good. The 5x5 approach is an effective modality for taking beginners to the intermediate stage. If you've spent your entire life doing 3x10-12 (as most people do when they start lifting based on what they read in the bodybuilding magazines), moving to a lower rep-range clearly makes sense as an avenue for continued progress beyond the "newbie gains."
Not progressing to these heavier sets of 4-7 reps is, in my eyes, one of the biggest mistakes novice lifters make in their first year of training. This is true whether the goal is size or strength (or both).
So, to that end, I think 5x5 is an excellent option in your first two years of lifting; it gives you plenty of volume to stimulate muscle growth, forces you to work at a higher percentage, and allows for enough repeated efforts to continue to build the movement efficiency it takes to get stronger.
Unfortunately, many folks stop there and 5x5 becomes like that first girlfriend in high school who let you get your grope on before dumping your sorry ass; it felt right, so you just can't seem to let her go.
I can say without wavering that in all my experience of coaching athletes and fitness enthusiasts, the biggest mistake that intermediate lifters make on their road to getting stronger is not working below five reps on the main strength exercises.
If you look at the research on the "evolution" of a lifter, you get a clear picture that intensity ? and not volume ? is the factor that governs how sustainable progress is over a training career.
Untrained lifters can improve strength with as little as 40% of their 1-rep max. In other words, if your naturally well-built friend could (theoretically) squat 225-230 pounds on his first day of training, he could likely improve his squat by just "practicing" with the bar and a 25-pounder on each side.
As he gets more experienced, though, that minimum threshold for strength improvements goes up to 70% of 1RM in intermediate lifters (roughly a 12-15 RM load for most lifters). Eventually, you'll need at least 85-90% of 1RM in advanced lifters to get any sort of a strength gain (or even strength maintenance).
So what does this mean for the 5x5 setup in experienced lifters? I recall Charles Poliquin writing on numerous occasions that the average intermediate lifter can handle 85% of his 1RM for approximately five reps. Taking this a step further, only your heaviest set of five (presumably the first or second one in a series of five sets) would actually create a training effect capable of stimulating a strength improvement.
With 5x5, you do 25 reps ? but only about 5-10 of them (the first set) are performed at a high enough intensity to elicit strength gains. And, as you get even more experienced, 85% won't even cut it (you have to be closer to or above 90%) ? so you won't find many elite level strength athletes doing many sets of five for their "strength work."
With all this in mind, use 5x5 if you're a beginner or intermediate lifter looking to get stronger, but don't do it for years on end. You'll stop getting stronger eventually.

Defendant #3: Wave Loading

I took issue with the use of wave loading for enhancing maximal strength a while back in It Looked Good On Paper, and if I can blow a little sunshine up my own butt, I think I did a pretty good job of it.
With that in mind, though, I think it warrants mention that wave loading does have some utility when it comes to building muscle mass. More specifically, the lower-rep sets tap into some higher threshold motor units and enable one to use more load during the "back-off" sets ? which occur in what we've come to recognize as our best rep ranges for building muscle.
So, to recap, wave loading has some definite benefits for building muscle mass, but I wouldn't wipe my ass (or anyone else's ass, for that matter) with it for building strength.

Defendant #4: Percentage-based Training

I'll be honest, I've never been much of a fan of percentage-based training. Sure, it has its place when we're talking about moving lighter loads with a lot of speed (whether it's Olympic lifts, jump squats, speed bench, or something else), but I just don't think this style of training takes into account the fact that people actually get stronger. It's a strange concept, I know.
I mean, think about it: The programs in each of my last two books have lasted 16 weeks, or four 4-week phases. It wasn't uncommon to see people put over 100 pounds on their squats and deadlifts and 50 pounds on their bench presses and 3-rep max chin-up.
Since it isn't possible to retest one's 1RM on every exercise, when you use percentage-based training, you're often basing your percentage on a 1RM that is months old.
Let's say you're a 300-pound squatter at the beginning of a 16-week program, and I want you to use 78% of your 1RM for three sets of six reps. You'd be using 235 pounds.
Now let's say that I want you to do the same 78% for 3x6 12 weeks later when your best squat is up to 360 pounds.
You'll still be using 235 when you ought to be using 280 pounds. In other words, percentage-based training ? at least in a beginner and intermediate population ? becomes very inferior, very quickly.
There is, however, a time (beyond speed work) when percentage-based training does come in handy: when one sucks at pushing oneself. When we're talking about someone who is a bit lazy and tends to underestimate his or her abilities, keeping them accountable to a percentage can be a good way to make sure they don't turn into a complete pussy when they get to the gym.
This is one reason why percentage-based training has become somewhat popular in collegiate settings: For every hardworking athlete, you usually have another 2-3 who just want to get their "conservative" reps in because they're too hung over to take the lift seriously.
Giving them a percentage to work from at least reminds them that they suck at life ? and ensures that they do a little more work. Unfortunately, it can also hold the best athletes back a bit.
With all this in mind, percentage-based training is generally not a good idea unless one, a) is very experienced and strong, b) has a clear idea of almost exactly what his 1RM is, or c) is a waste of space that needs a percentage to keep him honest.

Defendant #5: 8x3 or 10x3, etc.

Eight sets of three, ten sets of three, and the like have gained popularity around here thanks to the writing of Chad Waterbury ? and with good reason: they're an excellent fit for the "typical" TNation reader who wants a decent blend of size and strength.
On one hand, getting in 24-30 reps is surely enough work to create a stimulus for muscle growth. On the other hand, sets of three are generally at a high enough percentage to yield some appreciable strength gains, especially in intermediate lifters. So, effectively, you get some of both worlds.
However, you don't get the best of both worlds, particularly regarding strength development.
In the case of 8x3 or 10x3, those interested in strength gains almost exclusively run into the same issues as we saw with 5x5: many of the sets may fall below the requisite percentage of 1RM to induce strength gains.
Additionally, this volume of high-percentage work would wipe out most advanced lifters. As a frame of reference, my best deadlift is 660 pounds. Given that the typical lifter can hit a set of three at 90% of his 1RM, that'd put my 3RM at 595 pounds. Doing ten sets of three at 595 pounds ? or even 550 pounds, for that matter ? would be completely unsustainable for me, and likely pretty dangerous.
About two months ago, I hit 550 for 3x3, and afterwards wanted to go into hibernation for the entire winter because I was so exhausted and beaten down. The thought of doing another 5-7 sets at that load is laughable. The truth is that while I've pulled 660, I might only pull over 600 pounds 4-5 times per year.
A guy like me can, however, benefit from including some 8x3 and 10x3 work sparingly throughout the training year, and by doing it at a slightly lower percentage of 1RM than more intermediate lifters.
Summarily, 8x3 and 10x3 schemes offer a good blend for those looking for efficient ways to get bigger and stronger at the same time, but they may be too much for more advanced lifters unless they're used sparingly and performed at a lower percentage of 1RM. As with 5x5, use them, but not all the time, and certainly not forever.

Conclusion
Of course, these five approaches are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to sets and reps protocols that I could put under the microscope. Feel free to comment in the article LiveSpill on systems that have or haven't worked well for you.

Gallows
03-13-2012, 11:07 AM
Read this article just last night, and was tempted to post it. lol.


Makes lots of good points. Essentially there's a time and place for everything, but don't over do it and think that one scheme will work forever.

5x5 - I can totally see people using this well beyond their beginner gains, because it worked so well for them. Then again anyone can lift pretty much any way at the beginning and see strength gains, hell I've seen people eat like anorexic cheerleaders and still get stronger in the beginning months(naturally they go nowhere after that or get worse).

Wave Loading - Sort of doing this now. More of a pain in the ass changing weights so often than anything else.

wafb
03-13-2012, 11:50 AM
I gotta admit, in the years I've been training I've never tried these protocols. I follow Mike Mentzer's H.I.I.T. principle.

plazzman
03-13-2012, 12:04 PM
I read this whole fucking thing thinking it was about IT and programming. Confused the living fuck out of me

Gallows
03-13-2012, 12:09 PM
I gotta admit, in the years I've been training I've never tried these protocols. I follow Mike Mentzer's H.I.I.T. principle.

Strangely enough, I was reading up on Max-OT or H.I.T., trying to decide if I'd give one of those a try next.



I read this whole fucking thing thinking it was about IT and programming. Confused the living fuck out of me


ROFL! As someone who works in IT, I can relate to that.

bail3yz
03-13-2012, 12:15 PM
5x5 never did shit for me even when I was a newb.. I think I wasted most my newb gains on that shit routine lol
(okay maybe it did, but not as much as I think other routines would have)

Im still a newb/retard, but I find I see the most progress when I do 10+ reps really slowly at around 70% max weight.. idk why.. maybe its different for everyone and my muscles just respond better to that type of routine

and then in addition to that I do a few sets of really low reps near max weight.

with 5x5 I would never really feel anything.. I would just get tired.. muscles would be gassed so I couldnt lift much more, but they wouldnt be sore.

need the higher reps to feel that burning feeling at the end.. i really like my current routine.. going to be sad when i have to mix it up

Think Green
03-13-2012, 12:35 PM
^^Not sure if serious, but 5x5 is a great routine. It's a strength building routine, so you shouldn't expect to feel the "pump" you do with higher reps. Also, 10x3 and 8x3, etc. have worked great for me in the past: it's called volume training. Also, that many sets help your muscle memory for certain lifts and make sure you aren't using bad form on the higher reps.

I don't think Cressey is saying these protocols suck, but is just pointing out the negatives to them... which you could do with anything. I think he is also saying it's important to switch protocols up, which goes without saying.

bail3yz
03-13-2012, 12:39 PM
ya idk.. maybe its just a mental thing where i dont feel ive done enough if i dont have the pump lol

its been a long time since i did 5x5 but i remember as soon as i switched off it i hit new PRs and had a huge boost.. so i probably just needed to mix it up and i blamed it on 5x5 instead because im an idiot lol

Think Green
03-13-2012, 12:42 PM
Yeah, strength training is a lot different of a feel than traditional hypertrophy training. Your muscles don't feel as "tired" really.. but the reps are hard, not because your muscles are fatiguing, but because the weight is heavy. Different folks, different strokes.

wafb
03-13-2012, 02:02 PM
^^Not sure if serious, but 5x5 is a great routine. It's a strength building routine, so you shouldn't expect to feel the "pump" you do with higher reps. Also, 10x3 and 8x3, etc. have worked great for me in the past: it's called volume training. Also, that many sets help your muscle memory for certain lifts and make sure you aren't using bad form on the higher reps.
.

Volume training works for some, one of the bodybuilding greats Serge Nubret is an example. He trained twice a day for 2-3 hours per session. And trained well into his 70's.

http://www.builtreport.com/nubret/057.jpg

http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/433991/profilepic/15986orig.jpg

5x5 never did shit for me even when I was a newb.. I think I wasted most my newb gains on that shit routine lol
(okay maybe it did, but not as much as I think other routines would have)

Im still a newb/retard, but I find I see the most progress when I do 10+ reps really slowly at around 70% max weight.. idk why.. maybe its different for everyone and my muscles just respond better to that type of routine

and then in addition to that I do a few sets of really low reps near max weight.

with 5x5 I would never really feel anything.. I would just get tired.. muscles would be gassed so I couldnt lift much more, but they wouldnt be sore.

need the higher reps to feel that burning feeling at the end.. i really like my current routine.. going to be sad when i have to mix it up

You prolly have more slow twitch muscles thats why you respond to higher reps. For me, I don't grow unless I go really heavy and do 6-7 reps.

Think Green
03-13-2012, 03:36 PM
Regarding the 8x3-10x3 stuff though, I agree a lot with his thoughts. I'm definitely more of a fan of doing 3x3 at a higher % of my 1rm than 8x3 or 10x3 at a lower % of my 1rm.

I'm curious what loading protocols he does advocate, though. I wonder if he'll write that article next.

Gallows
03-13-2012, 04:52 PM
Regarding the 8x3-10x3 stuff though, I agree a lot with his thoughts. I'm definitely more of a fan of doing 3x3 at a higher % of my 1rm than 8x3 or 10x3 at a lower % of my 1rm.

I'm curious what loading protocols he does advocate, though. I wonder if he'll write that article next.

Going through his blog is like sifting through an encyclopedia, with occasional ads for his stuff. lol.
He's a trainer, and tailors the programs to the client so it's nearly impossible to pin down what would be his ideal program for any general audience would be. But here is a list of his articles for easier finding of what you want. He's got lots of great stuff written there.

www.ericcressey.com/Articles (http://www.ericcressey.com/articles)

bail3yz
03-13-2012, 09:14 PM
You prolly have more slow twitch muscles thats why you respond to higher reps. For me, I don't grow unless I go really heavy and do 6-7 reps.

ya I was actually going to post about this.. I read about this before but wasnt sure how accurate it was

Gallows
03-13-2012, 10:13 PM
ya I was actually going to post about this.. I read about this before but wasnt sure how accurate it was

Here are a couple of Articles I found for determining whether you have Fast Twitch or Slow Twitch dominant muscle groups.

Essentially you find your 1RM, then do the 80 (or 85%) test. Depending on how many reps you get out you can determine if they are predominantly fast twitch, or slow twitch or a combination there of.


%1-RM Test to Estimate Muscle Fiber Composition

This is a simple indirect test that is used to estimate the predominant muscle fiber type - slow twitch or fast twitch. It is interesting for athletes to know the composition of their muscle fibers. If they are primarily a strength or speed athlete, they want fast twitch fibers. For endurance athletes, more slow twitch fibers is optimal. This test does not replace an actual muscle fiber composition test, which would be more accurate but involves an invasive muscle biopsy and more sophisticated analysis.

purpose: to estimate the predominant muscle fiber type for any given muscle group.
equipment required: Free weights (barbells, dumbbells) or other gym equipment, assistant/spotter.
procedure: Determine your one repetition maximum (1RM) on a given exercise - a measure of the maximal weight a subject can lift with one repetition. Have a rest for 15 minutes. Then use 80% of your measured 1RM to perform as many repetitions as possible in a single attempt.

scoring: the maximum number of times the weight is correctly lifted is recorded. Use the values in the table below to determine the muscle fiber type based on the number of repetitions at 80% of 1RM (Pipes, 1994).
number of reps at 80% muscle fibre type
< 7 = > 50% fast twitch (FT)
7-12 = equal proportion of fiber type
> 12 = > 50% slow twitch (ST)

variations: There are two other protocols / assessments. These variations are replicated on many sites online, though no cited references can be found. One variation also uses 80% of your 1RM (Dr F. Hatfield Test), though the interpretation is different, and the other uses 85% 1RM (Charles Poliquin Test). As in the test above, the maximum number of reps at that level is recorded. The results for these variation are interpreted as follows.
number of reps at 80% muscle fibre type
< 7 =mostly fast twitch (FT) dominant
7 or 8 =mixed fiber type
> 8 =slow twitch (ST) dominant

number of reps at 85% muscle fibre type
< 5 mostly fast twitch (FT) dominant
5 mixed fiber type
> 5 slow twitch (ST) dominant
advantages: the required equipment is readily available in most gymnasiums.

disadvantages: performing a maximum weight lift is only for advanced weight trainers. It is important to be experienced in the gym and have good technique before attempting this test. The results for muscle fiber type is specific to the muscle group tested, and may not apply to the other muscles of the body. As muscle groups are involved in the lifting techniques, the muscle fiber composition of individual muscles is not able to be determined using this test.
comments: The test results will be specific to the equipment used and the technique allowed, so is best used for test-retest measures. Muscle fiber types can be broken down into two main types: slow twitch (Type I) muscle fibers and fast twitch (Type II) muscle fibers. Fast twitch fibers can be further categorized into Type IIa and Type IIb fibers.

reference: Pipes, T.V. (1994). Strength training and fiber types. Scholastic Coach, as referenced in Muscle Fiber Types and Training, by Jason R. Karp, Track Coach #155.

Am I fast twitch or slow twitch?

The test to determine whether you are fast twitch or slow twitch is called the “80% test.” It’s simple – find out the 1RM for a certain exercise, and do a set with 80% of that 1RM. More than 8, that muscle is more slow twitch than fast twitch; less than 8, that muscle is more fast twitch than slow twitch.

What muscle groups are fast twitch dominant?

-Chest, triceps, biceps, hamstrings

What muscle groups are slow twitch dominant?

-Shoulders, forearms, calves

In between (intermediate fast twitch)

-Quadriceps, back

1. For fast twitch dominant muscle groups, focus on lower reps like 5 to 7 and bump up the weight. These muscles react better to high intensity, low volume, low frequency training. Rest period should be a little longer than usual.

2. For slow twitch dominant muscle groups, focus on higher reps like 10 – 12 (or even 15 for calves and forearms). These muscle groups react better to high volume, high frequency, short rest periods and low intensity training.

3. For intermediate fast twitch muscle groups, focus on medium reps. Around 8 reps would be great. You can also mix in both low reps and high reps training to activate both types of muscle fibers.