How do you see the Main and Co Main Event of UFC 100 Playing out?

[southpaw447]

Georges St. Pierre (Champion) vs. Thiago Alves (challenger)

Obviously as a St. Pierre fan this is the fight I'm most looking forward to. They are arguably the two most talented fighters on the card.

A larger percentage of fans, journalists and even Dana White himself considers this without a doubt the biggest challenge to St. Pierre's title yet. I'm going to be called a ballwasher or blind nuthugger for saying this, but I personally think this is going to be "just another fight for the champion" but that doesn't mean that Thiago isn't dangerous and presents some interesting problems.

If there was anytime that you could say a fighter has a "punchers chance" in a fight, this would be it, IMO.

Thiago Alves is an aggressive striker with vicious leg kicks and big power, but form a technical standpoint he isn't very good.

He is very strong on the ground in the top position but he doesn't appear very comfortable off his back and his ground game is mostly defensive. His takedown defense is much improved and was on display in his fight with Hughes, Karo and Koscheck all of which are very good on the ground, but are not on the level of Georges St. Pierre.

Considering Alves was slated to fight Diego Sanchez before he was injured and Koscheck stepped in on short notice, he shown he was well prepared to defend the aggressive Koscheck takedowns but however was taken down by Hughes which I found unusual.

Thiago has definitely impressed over his last few fights but I don't see him being able to beat St. Pierre.

Since Georges' loss to Matt Serra over 2 years ago, he's gone from fighting aggressive and often careless, to fighting smart and it's been serving him very well.

Georges has very good striking from a technical standpoint and while he may not have that one punch KO power, he has the ability to effectively control the distance between him and his opponent.

Georges has very good footwork, a very effective jab, and moves very well. He will also have a significant reach advantage in this fight. His stand-up is very unorthodox and crafty due to his Kyokushin Karate background.


While Alves was able to defend the takedowns of Koscheck and most of Hughes', I don't believe he will be able to stop St. Pierre's. While they do have great wrestling pedigrees, I believe St. Pierre's wrestling is more MMA adapted and he trains with Wreslter's that are of Olympic Caliber, he doesn't train with MMA wrestlers.

Also unlike Kos and Hughes, St. Pierre doesn't shoot in recklessly or ankle bite his opponents. Georges takedown are very well set up and carefully calculated.

Georges has unparalleled top control and as strong as Thaigo is or may appear, I don't see him being able to handle Georges on top of him.

Thiago walks around at about 200lbs and this is the first time Thiago has to make 170lbs. I'm interested to see if he can and how it will effect his performance come fight night.

I think the longer this fight goes the more heavily Georges is favored. If he can keep the distance, avoid close range exchanges, and set-up his takedowns well, he takes this fight. Once Georges gets the first takedown, each takedown after that is going to become easier for him, IMO.

If Thiago had a more offensive ground game off his back and wasn't so straight forward, I'd would give him a much bigger chance in this fight.


I see Georges breaking Thiago Alves in the first round and putting him away in the third round by either TKO or Submission.




Lesnar (Champion) vs. Mir (Interim Champion)

While don't like either of these guys I see Lesnar taking this fight. However I see Mir putting up more of a fight this time and being more aggressive. Still I see Lesnar taking this by TKO early in the fight or smothering and controlling Mir for a very lackluster Unanimous Decision.


Lesnar by TKO round 2


So give a brief description of your predictions

[Meshuggeth]

I think GSP will win but I'm not sure how and I haven't made a pick for the main event, its a tough one. All I know is that I'm far and away most excited for Sexyama's fight.

[Thaispider]

im going for lesnar via a late stoppage win, and i honestly believe alves will beat gsp but thats my opinion, great thing aboutr these fights lots of people will be split on who they think will win.

[MilesHackett]

If there was anytime that you could say a fighter has a "punchers chance" in a fight, this would be it, IMO.

Alves has more than a puncher's chance. He has the best striking GSP has encountered yet, good power in his hands, with nasty leg kicks and knees. You say a fighter has a "puncher's chance" when they have no logical chances at all, and I think standing Thiago is the favourite.

Thiago Alves is an aggressive striker with vicious leg kicks and big power, but form a technical standpoint he isn't very good.

I disagree. His kicking form is phenomenal and his boxing has improved significantly in his last few fights. He takes a lot more damage than he needs to, but to say he's not technically very good is misleading to say the least.

Considering Alves was slated to fight Diego Sanchez before he was injured and Koscheck stepped in on short notice, he shown he was well prepared to defend the aggressive Koscheck takedowns but however was taken down by Hughes which I found unusual.

Why would it be unusual? Alves injured his ankle a few weeks before the Hughes fight.


I'll post my picks after the event tonight.

[Jack]

I've got GSP taking Alves down a lot and beating him up, I can see Alves winning a round, maybe two but I think GSP can take him down almost once per round which should be enough to win the fight as I don't see Thiago finishing it from the bottom or even having that much success getting back up from there.

I can see Alves stuffing a couple of shots, but GSP has the cardio advantage so I see him getting him down eventually and tiring Alves out on the bottom.

He could always catch him yeah, but I think it's more likely GSP plays it smart and either stays on the outside or clinched up. He doesn't wanna stand and trade in the pocket.


I see Brock donkey konging Mir late in the second. TBH I don't give a shit about this fight as I don't like either fighter, don't particularly enjoy watching either fighter and don't feel either one of them really deserves the belt.

How hilarious would it be if this one made it past the third? We'd have two depressingly gassed dudes fighting for the "Superbowl of MMA".

[bbjd7]

GSP will win IMO by decision but it is a really tough fight. I think Thiago doesn't get enough credit the guy is very powerful and underrated on the ground. Unfortantly he's fighting GSP who is IMO the best fighter in the world. I'll be cheering for Thiago though.

I think I'm picking Lesnar by first round KO but I'm torn. The more I think about it the more I think it'll hit the ground and Brock will get subbed quickly again. I'm sticking with Brock by KO for now. Personally I hope we get a double KO because I think they are both Assholes.

[Tripod]

Gotta agree with Miles here. Alves is very technical from a Muay Thai standpoint. His hip control during his kicks is really quite good. Standing, Alves definitely has the advantage in my eyes, which leads to him having more than just a puncher's chance.

[southpaw447]

Alves has more than a puncher's chance. He has the best striking GSP has encountered yet, good power in his hands, with nasty leg kicks and knees. You say a fighter has a "puncher's chance" when they have no logical chances at all, and I think standing Thiago is the favourite.

I view it as Thiago's only chance is to knock GSP out standing which I think is going to be difficult considering the level of fighter St. Pierre is. How well GSP controls the distance is going to make it hard for him to get inside which is where he is stronger.


I disagree. His kicking form is phenomenal and his boxing has improved significantly in his last few fights. He takes a lot more damage than he needs to, but to say he's not technically very good is misleading to say the least.

Compared to St. Pierre stand-up it's not as technical. Thiago has always appeared to me as more of a brawler, but not a reckless one.

His leg kicks are going to be a pension for a counter takedown or a counter right hand to a takedown. And with the implication of St. Pierre's wrestling, I think Thiago is going to be a lot more tentative.

[Aaron]

hmmm...the whole argument of "technique" is kinda awkward....

from a pure muay thai standpoint, alves has bad technique ...however, very few brazilians have good MT technique, yet they are great strikers....what Alves has done is tightened up his ultra-aggressive style of Brazilian MT brawling w/ very untelegraphed kicks and improved boxing...he tucks his chin very well also

t's basically an entirely new form of striking...molded into one from others.

[KJ Brophy]

I am not sure yet on GSP and Alves I think that is a really close fight.

I think Mir/Lesnar is a easy fight to pick and it will play out like the first one. Lesnar tapping in the first round.

[cplmac]

I have to take GSP, he is just to good in all aspects of MMA. I think GSP wins by stoppage after gassing Alvez who will be spent from cutting the necessary 326 pounds to make weight. I'm also taking Lesnar, I'm torn on this though whether or not it will be a first round ref stoppage or a late round ref stoppage after Mur gasses. This card is absolutely out of control.

[Robb2140]

It's hard to bet against GSP and I'm not totally sold on Alves' greatness yet. Alves will look tentative and be afraid to open up in fear of being taken down, GSP will secure his TD's and control the fight on the ground, finishing Alves in the later rounds by a GnP TKO stoppage. Alves' best chance is to catch GSP with a big knee or punch, rock him and go in for the kill.

Mir/Lesnar I am clueless as to who will win. Either Mir subs Lesnar early like he did in thier last fight or Brock pummels him until the ref steps in. I don't think Mir can go 5 rounds so if he is going to win, he has to do within the first 2. I really hope Mir wins this, but sadly I think Brock will be too much for Mir and will hurt him before he gets a chance to slap on a sub. I'll be very surprised if this fight lasts for more than 2 rounds.

[Aaron]

http://i39.tinypic.com/25fkt20.gif

Lesnar needs to throw da kneez

jesus, that must have hurt...lifted randy off the ground almost!

[MilesHackett]

I view it as Thiago's only chance is to knock GSP out standing which I think is going to be difficult considering the level of fighter St. Pierre is. How well GSP controls the distance is going to make it hard for him to get inside which is where he is stronger.

I agree that Alves' best chance is to knock GSP out, I'm just contesting the use of a "puncher's chance" in his case.


Compared to St. Pierre stand-up it's not as technical. Thiago has always appeared to me as more of a brawler, but not a reckless one.

A smart brawler? What a contradiction. GSP has more tools in his striking arsenal, but none of them really offer the threat that Alves' possesses in his hands and knees.


His leg kicks are going to be a pension for a counter takedown or a counter right hand to a takedown. And with the implication of St. Pierre's wrestling, I think Thiago is going to be a lot more tentative.

Or maybe his leg kicks will stop GSP from securing the takedown? It only took a few of them to land flush before Chris Lytle began to limp, and GSP isn't made of steel.

That's part of the interest in this fight to me, will the leg kicks work in Alves' favor, or against him? Will Alves be worried to throw them because of the takedown, or will GSP hesitant to go for the takedown because of Alves' knees. The fight is more complex than how I think you're looking at it.

If I was GSP, I would be working on fighting from the southpaw stance like Hughes and De Souza did, because it takes away the outside leg kick that Alves loves to throw.


hmmm...the whole argument of "technique" is kinda awkward....

from a pure muay thai standpoint, alves has bad technique ...however, very few brazilians have good MT technique, yet they are great strikers....what Alves has done is tightened up his ultra-aggressive style of Brazilian MT brawling w/ very untelegraphed kicks and improved boxing...he tucks his chin very well also

t's basically an entirely new form of striking...molded into one from others.

It's not really a new form of striking, the sport is called mixed martial arts for a reason. :laugh:

[AmRiT]

Mir by sub r2 - Heel hook
GSP by UD r5
Bisping by UD r3

[Brad.Taschuk]

In GSP/Alves, I see GSP being able to secure pretty much a takedown a round, and we know that once he gets a takedown he's passing guard and keeping the fight there wearing a guy down for the duration of the round.

The only question I have is when is that takedown going to come. I think the first round is going to present the best opportunity for Alves to win the fight, since it'll likely be on the feet for the longest period of time in the first. If he doesn't KO GSP in the first, it's going to a be a long night for Thiago, and GSP is just going to pound him until he stops him by some sub from side control in the 3rd or 4th.

Donkey Kong vs. Frankincense & Myrrh

To be really frank (har har har), I don't give a crap about DK/Myrrh. The entire UFC HW division just doesn't interest me. Even the "prospects" like Carwin (dude is in his 30's already). The only interest I have is in seeing how Cain and Cigano develop, and how Nog looks in his next fight(s).

That being said, I think this fight is going to be way more stand up than we saw in the first fight, as I think the memory of getting tapped is still weighing on DK's mind. Standing, we all know that DK is terrible technically, but somehow it gets the job done. Myrrh is better technically and has decent power, but I think he lacks the reach and quickness to be effective against DK.

I see it being pretty boring on the feet, perhaps another riveting clinchfest. Once it hits the ground, I give Myrrh the advantage though. Even as fast as Donkey learns, there's no way he's on Frankincense's level on the ground yet, and the longer it stays there, the more likely Frankincense is to find an opening to have Kong tapping again.

So really, I think this fight all comes down to how smart DK is about his gameplan. If he keeps it on the feet and in the clinch, he has his best chance of winning, on the ground Myrrh is still miles ahead of him. Sadly, I think Kong plays it smart, and hurts Frankincense on the feet, before going in for the kill. Probably somewhere in the second.

And I say sadly, because anything other than a double KO, or double blown out knees is not the result I want to see in this fight.

[wafb]

GSP will win IMO by decision but it is a really tough fight.



Dangit Ben, with your history of picking winners, why'd you have to jinx GSP,lol.:D

[stitch1z]

Brock vs. Mir:
I hate both of these guys. I just find both of their personalities to be so fake. I really think this is the greatest battle of the douchebags I have ever witnessed.

I could see it go either way, BUT I don't see it going down the same way as last time. No way.

Mir submitted Brock because Brock gave up control on the ground, not because Mir gained it. And when Brock was controlling on the ground he had Mir in trouble every second of it.

I agree with Brad that this will start standing though. And I'm betting that Mir's gameplan is to come in and make it a clinchfest in the first round or two in an effort to wear Brock down a bit. Lesnar looked winded against Randy in the 2nd.

And I look for Mir to try to sub or KTFO him in the third round on.

BUT, I'm leaning toward Brock taking this by rocking Mir and forcing a stoppage on the ground. Maybe in the 1st

GSP vs. Alves:
Alves has the striking advantage here. GSP got rocked by Serra. Alves has much more dangerous hands.

But I think GSP's wrestling is so dominant, that he will probably be able to stay on top of Alves and beat him up.

The game changer IMO?
If Alves can defend the takedowns. If that happens, it puts GSP in a very uncomfortable situation as I think Alves is clearly the more dangerous striker here.

[milkkid]

A big mark is being forgotten when most of you are saying that GSP will be able to take Thiago down at will. That is Thiago is going to weigh 200 lbs come fight night while GSP will weigh around 185. That's a 15 pound weight difference and I believe that will hold a significant advantage as to Thiago being able to shrug some takedowns off.

[Jack]

A big mark is being forgotten when most of you are saying that GSP will be able to take Thiago down at will. That is Thiago is going to weigh 200 lbs come fight night while GSP will weigh around 185. That's a 15 pound weight difference and I believe that will hold a significant advantage as to Thiago being able to shrug some takedowns off.

But then you have to consider that Thiago has had to cut 15lbs more than GSP and in a 5 round fight, especially when GSP's gone 5 hard before, that's gonna take it's toll.

[MilesHackett]

But then you have to consider that Thiago has had to cut 15lbs more than GSP and in a 5 round fight, especially when GSP's gone 5 hard before, that's gonna take it's toll.

No, no. He's bigger, he has to win. :push:

Thiago's very top heavy, I think a lot of people don't realize that his ridiculous amount of muscle mass on top is not going to do him favors in a grinder. I could see GSP sucking the life out of him against the cage with knees to the legs and pummeling for position to fatigue his arms.

[milkkid]

But then you have to consider that Thiago has had to cut 15lbs more than GSP and in a 5 round fight, especially when GSP's gone 5 hard before, that's gonna take it's toll.

Thiago has been in 2 decisions in the UFC and he didn't gas. His others fights in the UFC end in the first or 2nd round. We haven't seen him gas, but this is a 5 rounder and it is against GSP so this will show us how well his cardio is. Then again, history shows most of Thiago's fights end in the 2nd round.

No, no. He's bigger, he has to win. :push:

I didn't say that and I did not intend to have my statement be interpreted like that. Obviously if you are bigger, it doesn't mean you HAVE to win, but it doesn't mean it will play a factor in the fight. Having 15 extra pounds is a big plus.


Thiago's very top heavy, I think a lot of people don't realize that his ridiculous amount of muscle mass on top is not going to do him favors in a grinder. I could see GSP sucking the life out of him against the cage with knees to the legs and pummeling for position to fatigue his arms.

I can't see GSP pushing and keeping Alves against the cage unless he wears Thiago Alves. Unless you are talking about when GSP is on top of Alves and Alves being pushed to the cage and GSP kneeing his legs from there. You are also giving no credit to Thiago's ground game. It's like most of you on here think once GSP takesThiago down, if GSP does, that Thiago will be helpless once on his back.

Also, being top heavy is great for defending take downs as long as you can sprawl fast enough. You use the top part of your body to push and keep your opponent from taking you down once you sprawl and having a strong, heavy top body help you do just that even better.

---------- Post added at 03:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 PM ----------

Also, who was it that said it was unusual that Matt Hughes took Alves down? It was frickin Matt Hughes who took him down, not someone of the likes of Cheick Kongo.

[stitch1z]

I can't see GSP pushing and keeping Alves against the cage unless he wears Thiago Alves. Unless you are talking about when GSP is on top of Alves and Alves being pushed to the cage and GSP kneeing his legs from there. You are also giving no credit to Thiago's ground game. It's like most of you on here think once GSP takesThiago down, if GSP does, that Thiago will be helpless once on his back.



GSP is pretty consistent with making competitors look helpless once he puts them on their back.

You can't really blame speculators that assume the same thing is likely to happen again.

[Jack]

Thiago has been in 2 decisions in the UFC and he didn't gas. His others fights in the UFC end in the first or 2nd round. We haven't seen him gas, but this is a 5 rounder and it is against GSP so this will show us how well his cardio is. Then again, history shows most of Thiago's fights end in the 2nd round.

Yeah but it's against a top 2 P4P fighter who's fought 5 rounds before, has excellent conditioning and pushes a quick pace. I'm not saying Thiago's gonna gas, I'm just saying in this fight the weight cut might not be worth it.

I can't see GSP pushing and keeping Alves against the cage unless he wears Thiago Alves. Unless you are talking about when GSP is on top of Alves and Alves being pushed to the cage and GSP kneeing his legs from there. You are also giving no credit to Thiago's ground game. It's like most of you on here think once GSP takesThiago down, if GSP does, that Thiago will be helpless once on his back.

Yeah but BJ's guard >>> Thiago's and we all saw what happened there.

TBH I think this is a close fight and Thiago can finish it at any time but if GSP puts him on his back, odds are he's not sweeping him or subbing him. He may manage to scramble back to his feet but even there my money's on GSP keeping him down.

Also, who was it that said it was unusual that Matt Hughes took Alves down? It was frickin Matt Hughes who took him down, not someone of the likes of Cheick Kongo.

I think they just meant cos Kos couldn't get him down and Koscheck's a better wrestler than Hughes.

[Aaron]

Yeah but BJ's guard >>> Thiago's and we all saw what happened there.

w/ technique yes...but alves is MUCH stronger than BJ and should be able to prevent gsp from passing about as much as Fitch did...

[Jack]

w/ technique yes...but alves is MUCH stronger than BJ and should be able to prevent gsp from passing about as much as Fitch did...

Yeah I was talking more about working for subs/sweeps and creating scrambles. Alves can probably prevent a fair bit of damage from the bottom but I don't see him having too much success getting back to his feet from there.

TBH I'm liking Thiago more and more lately, all that stuff in the past with his weight really pissed me off cos it's sort of a pet peeve for me but he seems like a pretty cool guy. I'll be rooting for hi in this one even if I am picking against him.

[Tripod]

Also, being top heavy is great for defending take downs as long as you can sprawl fast enough. You use the top part of your body to push and keep your opponent from taking you down once you sprawl and having a strong, heavy top body help you do just that even better.[COLOR="Red"]



Actually being top heavy isn't as awesome in defending takedowns as you might think. The best muscle in TDD is definitely your hips and the power and strength in your hips and upper leg area. That's what makes someone's face hit the mat on a shot. Even if they have a leg, just driving with your hips can be enough to stuff the TD.

[MilesHackett]

I didn't say that and I did not intend to have my statement be interpreted like that. Obviously if you are bigger, it doesn't mean you HAVE to win, but it doesn't mean it will play a factor in the fight. Having 15 extra pounds is a big plus.

Having 15 extra pounds can also be a disadvantage when you're fighting someone that not only pushes an incredible pace, but makes his fights grueling physical affairs.

I can't see GSP pushing and keeping Alves against the cage unless he wears Thiago Alves.

Against the cage is where he would wear him down, much like he does to every opponent he's faced.

Unless you are talking about when GSP is on top of Alves and Alves being pushed to the cage and GSP kneeing his legs from there.

That statement makes very little sense, could you please clarify what you are talking about?

You are also giving no credit to Thiago's ground game. It's like most of you on here think once GSP takes Thiago down, if GSP does, that Thiago will be helpless once on his back.

I'm not saying he's helpless, I'm just telling you that GSP's top control is exceptional. Alves has never shown much of a submission or sweep game, he generally likes to push his opponents off him with his legs and quickly get back to his feet. Doing that over and over again will eventually tire his legs out, making it difficult for him to throw kicks, defend the takedown, and secure a tight guard.


Also, being top heavy is great for defending take downs as long as you can sprawl fast enough. You use the top part of your body to push and keep your opponent from taking you down once you sprawl and having a strong, heavy top body help you do just that even better.[COLOR="Red"]

That's partially true, but being top heavy also tires your legs out, and if your legs aren't behind your sprawl, you're going on your back.


Also, who was it that said it was unusual that Matt Hughes took Alves down? It was frickin Matt Hughes who took him down, not someone of the likes of Cheick Kongo.

Southpaw, and I already explained that Alves had an injured ankle entering that fight.

[XitUp]

I'm going for GSP by decision. I wouldn't be too shocked by a KO for Alves though, if Serra can do it Thiago can, although I don't see GSP standing with him for long.

I hate Brock too much to make a rational call on that one but I'm saying if he doesn't take it by TKO by the second he will be out of breath and get sloppy and get subbed in the later rounds.

[Brad.Taschuk]

WARNING: This is a mini-rant.

People take the fact that GSP got rocked and finished by Serra, and somehow turn it into the fact that Serra was outstriking him and is the better striker, which just isn't true. GSP looked more tentative in that fight that he ever has before, and even then at best the striking was even before the finish.

Also, Thiago is a very different striker than Serra, so the logic that "if Serra could do it Thiago can do it" is severely flawed. I'm not saying Thiago can't KO GSP, I'm just saying that using that logic to show the possibility isn't the best way. Saying something like:

GSP likes to get into the clinch early in fights to wear opponents down, where Thiago has shown on multiple occasions very dangerous knees. This leads me to believe that Thiago could very well knock Georges out.

Would be much more applicable than saying, "Thiago > Serra. Serra dummied GSP, so Thiago will double dummy him." Sorry for the mini-rant, but it's just a pet peeve of mine when people take a situation move it out of context and try to use it to create another situation. It happened to many times in this thread for me to not bring it up.

[Jack]

WARNING: This is a mini-rant.

People take the fact that GSP got rocked and finished by Serra, and somehow turn it into the fact that Serra was outstriking him and is the better striker, which just isn't true. GSP looked more tentative in that fight that he ever has before, and even then at best the striking was even before the finish.

Also, Thiago is a very different striker than Serra, so the logic that "if Serra could do it Thiago can do it" is severely flawed. I'm not saying Thiago can't KO GSP, I'm just saying that using that logic to show the possibility isn't the best way. Saying something like:



Would be much more applicable than saying, "Thiago > Serra. Serra dummied GSP, so Thiago will double dummy him." Sorry for the mini-rant, but it's just a pet peeve of mine when people take a situation move it out of context and try to use it to create another situation. It happened to many times in this thread for me to not bring it up.

I think it has more to do with people saying if Serra has the power to stop GSP then Thiago does aswell. It also shows that he can be finished with strikes and doesn't have a BJ like chin.

I can see where you're coming from though, it can get annoying when people bring up that fight to devalue GSP's striking game when not only did he get caught before he really had a chance to get going in that fight, but he's also imoproved his standup a lot since then and uses it more wisely than before.

[stitch1z]

I think it has more to do with people saying if Serra has the power to stop GSP then Thiago does aswell. It also shows that he can be finished with strikes and doesn't have a BJ like chin.


^^^ This.

[XitUp]

WARNING: This is a mini-rant.

People take the fact that GSP got rocked and finished by Serra, and somehow turn it into the fact that Serra was outstriking him and is the better striker, which just isn't true. GSP looked more tentative in that fight that he ever has before, and even then at best the striking was even before the finish.
I wasn't suggesting that Serra is a better striker than GSP, just pointing out that GSP doesn't have a very strong chin and Alves has more power than Serra.

[Brad.Taschuk]

Those are all much better ways to put it than the different ways it was said earlier in this thread. All I'm asking for is some clarity.

[milkkid]

Against the cage is where he would wear him down, much like he does to every opponent he's faced.

That statement makes very little sense, could you please clarify what you are talking about?

I was confused when you said he would tire Alves out once he got him against the cage, but do you mean pressing against the cage when GSP is on top and Alves on bottom, or are you talking about GSP wearing Alves down against the cage when standing? Basically are you talking about standing against the cage or being pressed against the cage when on the ground?


That's partially true, but being top heavy also tires your legs out, and if your legs aren't behind your sprawl, you're going on your back.

I don't see Alves legs being tired out. We haven't seen him gas, tire, or lose his leg stamina especially with all the low leg kicks he throws.


Southpaw, and I already explained that Alves had an injured ankle entering that fight.

Yeah I know, but someone said they were surprised that Hughes took Alves down. Bazza said that maybe it was because he wasn'tt taken down by Kos, but by Hughes.

[crispsteez]

alves got taken down after he threw a knee to hughes' midsection and got caught off balance.

[screenamesuck]

As of right now I'm leaning towards GSP and Lesnar, but both fights can go either way. The ONLY way I see Alves winning is by T/KO. As for the Lesnar/Mir fight it depends on what Lesnar shows up, stupid wreckless Lesnar or smart safe Lesnar. If Lesnar is smart he will keep the fight standing and only go to the ground if its to finish a rocked Mir off.

[Negative2]

It would please me greatly to see Alves win the fight but after reading through this thread and really thinking about the fight, I think I choose GSP by decision. This fight will be the usual St Pierre but probably cranked a little higher just to up the pressure on Alves. But I see GSP taking at least 3 of the rounds with his wrestling onto a UD.

Lesnar vs Mir I have a feeling is going to be lackluster unless it ends in the first. For such a highly touted event, they might be making a mistake making the HW's the main attraction.

[MilesHackett]

I was confused when you said he would tire Alves out once he got him against the cage, but do you mean pressing against the cage when GSP is on top and Alves on bottom, or are you talking about GSP wearing Alves down against the cage when standing? Basically are you talking about standing against the cage or being pressed against the cage when on the ground?

I'm talking about pressing him against the cage when standing. GSP's probably one of the most active guys in the clinch that I've ever watched and that really led to BJ's downfall in both their meetings.

I don't see Alves legs being tired out. We haven't seen him gas, tire, or lose his leg stamina especially with all the low leg kicks he throws.

Yes, but Alves hasn't really faced a guy known for grinding opponents out inside the clinch. I'm sure Thiago could throw low kicks all day and not get tired, but that's if I assume he'll be able to avoid taking damage that will wear on him throughout the fight.

GSP just pushes a ferocious pace, a lot of guys just aren't prepared for how fast and quick he is, and how long he can maintain that strength and speed for.

[milkkid]

I'm talking about pressing him against the cage when standing. GSP's probably one of the most active guys in the clinch that I've ever watched and that really led to BJ's downfall in both their meetings.

Yeah, but this isn't BJ. This is Thiago Alves who is significantly bigger than GSP and is a MT practitioner. I can't see GSP pressing and over powering Thiago standing up by pushing him and keep him against the cage. Later in the fight when Alves and if Alves gets worn down, then yes, I believe GSP can press and keep Thiago at the fence, but early on wouldn't be the smartest thing to do.



Yes, but Alves hasn't really faced a guy known for grinding opponents out inside the clinch. I'm sure Thiago could throw low kicks all day and not get tired, but that's if I assume he'll be able to avoid taking damage that will wear on him throughout the fight.

I know, but GSP does NOT want to clinch with Thiago. He will want to take him down.

[Kingofkings]

Main Event:

Lesnar via TKO(GNP) round 1


Co Main Event:

GSP via TKO(GNP) round 4

[MilesHackett]

Yeah, but this isn't BJ. This is Thiago Alves who is significantly bigger than GSP and is a MT practitioner.

GSP does this to everyone he fights, he's not going to change his style of fighting for Alves.


I can't see GSP pressing and over powering Thiago standing up by pushing him and keep him against the cage.

Why can't GSP do it when Karo did it? I think you're overestimating Thiago's strength and confusing it with another concept: size.

Later in the fight when Alves and if Alves gets worn down, then yes, I believe GSP can press and keep Thiago at the fence, but early on wouldn't be the smartest thing to do.

He's not going to rush into a clinch willy nilly, only a retard would do that. He's going to use his strikes and reach to keep Thiago on the outside (which is cageside) and eventually close the distance with his strikes to enter a body clinch.

Thiago Alves is a muay thai practitioner, but you make it sound like he has the Thai plum of Anderson Silva or Wanderlei Silva, which he doesn't. He's a different kind of muay thai striker in that he's more effective from the distance than in tight. You can't say that just because he's a MT fighter he's amazing in the clinch, because he isn't. He has power in his knees, but when wrestling in the clinch he's pretty ordinary.


I know, but GSP does NOT want to clinch with Thiago. He will want to take him down.

It would be harder to take him down when he's fresh, that's why he's going to strike and enter the clinch and strike some more.

[southpaw447]

I had a dream last night that GSP beat Thiago by TKO due to exhaustion at the end of the second round...

[Jack]

I think you're overestimating Thiago's strength and confusing it with another concept: size.

I think a lot of people of people are doing this TBH. I actually wouldn't really be surprised if GSP was the stronger fighter.

[southpaw447]

I think a lot of people of people are doing this TBH. I actually wouldn't really be surprised if GSP was the stronger fighter.

I agree as well. They both have those "beach muscles" but I'm willing to bet GSP has more functional and relevant strength