Chuck doesn't need to dazzle anyone

[Aaron]

http://www.fightlockdown.com/articles/news-commentary/chucky

there is is folks...discuss

[DRAGON]

Yeah, I read this yesterday. Very good article. Right to the point. And I agree, Chuck doesn't have to prove anything, his career speaks for itself. And the fact that he lost those previous fights to top competition, one being the current LHW champion only means it's the competition that beat him, with effective gameplans, and not that Liddell has lost anything. He fought the same he has always fought.

[IcemanCometh]

Yeah, I read this yesterday. Very good article. Right to the point. And I agree, Chuck doesn't have to prove anything, his career speaks for itself. And the fact that he lost those previous fights to top competition, one being the current LHW champion only means it's the competition that beat him, with effective gameplans, and not that Liddell has lost anything. He fought the same he has always fought.

And that is the problem, I think Dana is looking out for Chuck his friend-if he keeps fighting the same fights he will keep getting brutally KO'ed and end up looking like Wandi and acting like Ali.

I agree to a point his record is great but he has to do something to stay on top of the heap that is the UFC 205 division. And this is coming from a fan of his.

[JT42]

Yeah the feeling I got form Dana was not that he wanted Chuck to look great for the UFC but rather that he wanted Chuck to look great for his health. With them being such good friends I dont think Dana wants to see Liddell get permanently messed up and I agree with him. He has accomplished a ton in the sport and I dont think he will win the title again so no sense injuring himself.

[Negative2]

I really don't see that many interesting matchups for him. I think the bulk of the 205er's will take him apart.

And as for him winning the 1st round's of Jardine and Rashad, well, he got beat by 2 straight round's against Jardine then was Ko'd by Rashad. He didn't get caught, he left his hand's down like he did against Jackson.

I also don't see him doing anything out of the ordinary in his future fight's. I think Chuck should retire while he still has a good image. For I believe he is borderlining washed-up.

[RileyTP17]

Yeah the feeling I got form Dana was not that he wanted Chuck to look great for the UFC but rather that he wanted Chuck to look great for his health. With them being such good friends I dont think Dana wants to see Liddell get permanently messed up and I agree with him. He has accomplished a ton in the sport and I dont think he will win the title again so no sense injuring himself.

Well there are a lot of guys who will never come close to the title, does that mean they should all give up? It's not like Chuck has been getting manhandled like Hughes, he has been competetive in all of his fights. If he feels like he can still contribute to the sport he should be allowed to. He is still one of the biggest draws the UFC has and I sure won't be complaining if he is on any of the cards they put forth.

[Aaron]

i actually believe chuck still has what it takes to go for a title run....when he beats shogun, we all know he'll probably be one top 10 opponent away from fighting for gold....

the ufc will want that payday

[Negative2]

Who is top 10 that Chuck can beat though?

I think it would at least be someone lower than 6th.

I wonder if the UFC would ever promote a PPV as a retirement fight. :eek:

[Aaron]

Who is top 10 that Chuck can beat though?

I think it would at least be someone lower than 6th.

I wonder if the UFC would ever promote a PPV as a retirement fight. :eek:

currently in the top 10, chuck could beat:

shogun
jardine
rashad
griffin
thiago silva
wanderlei

i'm not saying he WOULD beat all of them...but i'd give him a good chance against all of those fighters.

[IcemanCometh]

Well there are a lot of guys who will never come close to the title, does that mean they should all give up? It's not like Chuck has been getting manhandled like Hughes, he has been competetive in all of his fights. If he feels like he can still contribute to the sport he should be allowed to. He is still one of the biggest draws the UFC has and I sure won't be complaining if he is on any of the cards they put forth.

If they are pushing 40 and have held the title before and been brutally ko'ed twice, haven't improved or changed the way in which they fight, and probably have nothing new to the offer the UFC or its fans then yes. Thats the thing if he loses to Shogun what's left for him? Move up to HW-maybe but probably not cuz he will manhandeled like a rag doll. He cannot cut to 185 lbs. and if Shoguns beats him he will be fighting guys like Jon Jones and that won't be good for his legacy.

See response in red:currently in the top 10, chuck could beat:

shogun We shall see if he can beat him soon enough
jardine-already lost once twice wouldn't be much better
rashadI think he used the perfect gameplan like Rampage and doubt he would lose
griffinmaybe but I could see Forrest using the Randy gameplan of takedowns and Forrest out pointing him in kicks.
thiago silvanot top 10 but I think you're right he would beat him
wanderlei-maybe but since Wandi is moving to 185 seems a moot point and match that probably won't happen

i'm not saying he WOULD beat all of them...but i'd give him a good chance against all of those fighters.

[ThatGuyJae]

currently in the top 10, chuck could beat:

shogun
jardine
rashad
griffin
thiago silva
wanderlei

i'm not saying he WOULD beat all of them...but i'd give him a good chance against all of those fighters.

I agree he shouldn't have to dazzle anyone. I also agree that he could beat all the guys you have listed. He was winning the Rashad match and made a mistake, its a mistake he's made before but i truly believe he's trying to evolve as a fighter. If he wasn't i don't think hey would have gone to ATT.

[Suizida]

I think the main problem is with Chuck, is even though he is one and 3 for his last 4 fights, he hasn't KOed anyone in the last 2 years.......

Chuck is supposed to be the guy who when he walks into the octagon is supposed to take your head off, i mean a 7 fight win streak all with KO's/TKO's is just awesome, and its been to long to see another one, and i feel that Dana feels that the torch has passed for him.

While it may be not as bad as someone like Shamrock, or even Tito, who im starting to remember as the guy who hasn't won a bout since 06.

But a lot of questions are going to be answered at UFC 97, for both Shogun and Liddell. If he does lose to Shogun, this could be his last hoorah. A win-win situation for me is a Chuck who has tightened up his strikes v. a new rejuvinated Shogun.

If chuck wins, then i would put him against Forrest Griffin (after he beats Thiago of course), cause that is a UFC fight that is VERY MARKETABLE. 2 of the biggest stars in the UFC, Coach v TUF winner, they could even do a UFC primetime with that one.

and if Shogun beats chuck decisevly, id give him the loser of Machida v Rashad (so give him Rashad)

But i still feel this is Chuck's last hoorah, cause he is not a fighter who fights for the paycheck, he has all the money he needs, chuck is a warrior and the only thing he wants is his belt, + he is very marketable, they aren't gonna put him against people the casuals haven't heard of like Thiago Silva and Bahna, Chuck will only fight the top top guys that people know

[Negative2]

Chuck may have the heart of a warrior but I do not see him getting that title back.

If Chuck comes out the same way he always does against any of the top 10, he will lose. However, if Chuck came out with a different aresenal of some sort then he might be able to pose some problem's. But again, I don't see him beating any high top 10er's.

Let's see the Liddell that KO'd Sobral the first time. That's a Liddell you can bet on. Won't happen though.

[ThatGuyJae]

Chuck may have the heart of a warrior but I do not see him getting that title back.

If Chuck comes out the same way he always does against any of the top 10, he will lose. However, if Chuck came out with a different aresenal of some sort then he might be able to pose some problem's. But again, I don't see him beating any high top 10er's.

Let's see the Liddell that KO'd Sobral the first time. That's a Liddell you can bet on. Won't happen though.

I'd like to see Chuck use kicks again he's moved away from kicks. I'd also like to see him use his wrestling offensively. He's a purple belt in BJJ i imagine he must have pretty good top control, work on sub defense and maybe try some GnP just to keep people guessing. I don't know if he could get the belt again but he's still good enough to be towards the top of the division IMO.

[Negative2]

I am actually really curious to see what his top control is like. Can Liddell win a fight on point's? The last time we saw that it was against Monson. (The Silva fight doesn't count, that was an all out brawl)

The purple belt in JJ I think is irrelevent because I don't think he trains JJ at all for his fight's. Unless he is this time but we wil have to wait and see.

[ThatGuyJae]

I am actually really curious to see what his top control is like. Can Liddell win a fight on point's? The last time we saw that it was against Monson. (The Silva fight doesn't count, that was an all out brawl)

The purple belt in JJ I think is irrelevent because I don't think he trains JJ at all for his fight's. Unless he is this time but we wil have to wait and see.

I don't think its totally irrelevant because he has atleast a basic knowledge of BJJ. I can only assume that being at ATT he worked on his BJJ, they have some of the best in the game there!! I would love to see what his top control is like, i'm guessing its not bad, he has a wrestling background and some basic BJJ skills. I don't see him subbing anyone but i think he might be able to control and do some damage with GnP.

[PunchDrunk]

I responded to this on the other site, but here are my thoughts on this.

I can't understand why Chuck would have to do anything at this point in his career. Dude's a legend and was the face of the UFC for a long period of time. He has earned the right to compete. If he could get sanctioned to fight being pushed into the octagon in a wheelchair, the UFC should let him do it. He gave many years to the UFC and should leave on his own terms. Just my opinion.

At least Chuck has not been embarrassing in his losses like Ken Shamrock. I don't cringe like I do when I hear Shamrock has another upcoming fight (and Shammy isn't fighting the caliber of guys Chuck is).

[PirateNinja415]

i agree with dana's statement. if chuck gets beaten badly, it won't be safe for him to continue fighting. but if he comes out and has a good fight, i could see chuck fighting in one or two more fights.

[Aaron]

i agree with dana's statement. if chuck gets beaten badly, it won't be safe for him to continue fighting. but if he comes out and has a good fight, i could see chuck fighting in one or two more fights.

that isn't what dana said...dana said even if he wins, he needs to dazzle him ...

[ThatGuyJae]

i agree with dana's statement. if chuck gets beaten badly, it won't be safe for him to continue fighting. but if he comes out and has a good fight, i could see chuck fighting in one or two more fights.

I think he has more than a couple fights left. Rashad did KO him but KO's happen. Against Jardine he was competitive and looked great against Wandy. One nasty KO doesn't mean he's done with. Rashad is the current champ so its not as though he got KOed like that against a can.

[zzTIGERzz81]

Sadly, I agree with Dana. It seems Dana is being smart here and looking at this objectively...is Chuck a huge draw...hell yeah. But that doesn't mean him continuing to fight is in his best interest.

When is okay to say good bye to a legend? I think that is the more appropriate question. If Chuck is just a shell of his former self, isn;t it only fair to make him pass the same tests as other fighters? Just because he was a champ once doesn't mean he should be up there still. How many other guys would be in the UFC still if they were 1-3?

should Dana let Chuck ruin his legacy or let him be remembered as a fighter that was always competitive? The last thing we want to see is Chuck getting dominated like Shamrock was in the end.

[ThatGuyJae]

Sadly, I agree with Dana. It seems Dana is being smart here and looking at this objectively...is Chuck a huge draw...hell yeah. But that doesn't mean him continuing to fight is in his best interest.

When is okay to say good bye to a legend? I think that is the more appropriate question. If Chuck is just a shell of his former self, isn;t it only fair to make him pass the same tests as other fighters? Just because he was a champ once doesn't mean he should be up there still. How many other guys would be in the UFC still if they were 1-3?

should Dana let Chuck ruin his legacy or let him be remembered as a fighter that was always competitive? The last thing we want to see is Chuck getting dominated like Shamrock was in the end.

There are lots of fighters in the UFC who aren't in the title contention. If Chuck still wants to fight i say let him there are plenty of guys he'd still give a beating to at 205. And i think he still stands a chance against the top 10 fighters. Hopefully he proves that against Shogun.